Forums > Stand Up Paddle Foiling

How do I paddle straight?

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Created by Mahanumah 1 month ago, 30 Nov 2020
Mahanumah
VIC, 301 posts
30 Nov 2020 7:43PM
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Tried my foil board in small surf today for the first time (with paddle...).

To say it went badly would be an understatement... I could not get the board to paddle straight under any circumstances. I kept going in circles...

Looking for some tips on how to paddle straight (or straighter...) so I can at least pick up a wave.

Managed to get a couple of waves by taking off right where it pitched but wasn't able to get flight for more than a second or two.

Riding a Naish Hover 140l with the Go Foil Maliko 200

anders884
51 posts
30 Nov 2020 4:48PM
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Hi Mahanumah,

Ha ha, been there before...

Check this video out at about 3.05. With a foil you got plenty of stability and will pick up it soon.


Mahanumah
VIC, 301 posts
30 Nov 2020 8:02PM
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Thanks Anders

Have been trying to use the J-Stroke when paddling my Surf SUP and Race Board but I don't seem to get it 100%.

The Hover is 33" wide which makes getting my top hand over the bottom one problematic.

Will persevere and see how I go.

Mahanumah
VIC, 301 posts
30 Nov 2020 8:02PM
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Thanks Anders

Have been trying to use the J-Stroke when paddling my Surf SUP and Race Board but I don't seem to get it 100%.

The Hover is 33" wide which makes getting my top hand over the bottom one problematic.

Will persevere and see how I go.

LeeD
2119 posts
1 Dec 2020 2:07AM
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Smaller blade, start sideways and use the curve to your advantage, switch hands after 2 strokes.

mcrt
82 posts
1 Dec 2020 5:46AM
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To get your top hand closer to the rail without twisting your body it is easier to stand in a staggered stance, one foot further forward instead of side by side.
It will also make it easier to dip the blade at an angle for the J-stroke.
Plenty of Youtube vids on J , brace and sprint stroke, they have saved me from lots of fumbling and falling and they are essential for wave SUP.
Don't be discouraged by a bad day, you will get it !

LeeD
2119 posts
1 Dec 2020 6:08AM
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And wave SUP usually get smaller fin..s..area, so you need to switch sides with fewer paddle strokes. Less fin area and shorter distance from feet to fin coe.
Just learn to switch efficiently.

colas
4071 posts
1 Dec 2020 2:08PM
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I posted some tips here: www.standupzone.com/forum/index.php?topic=15897.0

emmafoils
253 posts
1 Dec 2020 3:46PM
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colas said..
I posted some tips here: www.standupzone.com/forum/index.php?topic=15897.0


Good stuff. Any updates on this using a foil?

colas
4071 posts
1 Dec 2020 6:23PM
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That's exactly the same thing, with the "nail effect" even more present, as the center of rotation of the board is definitively the mast, whereas on a normal SUP it is a mix of the fins and the rails.

I included the paddling in this video so you can see how it is done. See how my rear knee nearly touches the deck for having my whole body pulls on the paddle, not only the arms

jatem
7 posts
11 Dec 2020 2:47AM
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colas said..
I posted some tips here: www.standupzone.com/forum/index.php?topic=15897.0



Really useful way to explain the mechanics behind j paddling, thanks colas. It's working well, now I can paddle my 5'10 straight without switching sides all the time.

bolgo
WA, 857 posts
11 Dec 2020 5:27AM
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2 small stabilisers help too??

Mahanumah
VIC, 301 posts
11 Dec 2020 3:48PM
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Thanks everyone for the advice...

Colas, your tips on StandupZone are pretty awesome. Looks like I have some work to do.


Last week I had a chance to try a narrower board (Fanatic Sky SUP at 3" longer and 3" narrower). This was much easier to paddle straight (not to mention achieve the J(C)-Stroke given the width...) although the board was too small for my skills given the level of chop we had.

Still, once I was up and paddling I had reasonable direction control. Now I need to try it on the 33" wide Naish...

colas
4071 posts
11 Dec 2020 2:29PM
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bolgo said..
2 small stabilisers help too??


Yes, a lot:

- because it is a surf shape, so it has more row effect than a pure foil SUP board with their bevels and parallel rails. Saves a lot of energy for paddling out. Even Dave Kalama uses also a fin on his pure SUP foil shape (but in the front as he has no room in the tail).

- it allows me to put all my focus and strength into the forward pull on takeoffs. This extra bit of push makes me take waves that others miss, especially the people that got short dedicated SUP foil boards because every cool kid have them, but don't have yet the paddling technique to master a very short SUP... It helps me even though I have 10 years of paddling experience in 6'x" SUPs...

- and the most important effect: it keeps the board go straight when the (surf) tail touches the water. Otherwise I found out that it wlll skip on the water like a stone and go sideways, inducing yaw, and even a small amount of yaw kills a foil speed, much more than the water friction itself. In a way it acts like a nubster to maintain drive on a too-loose quad surfboard.

A good hull design alleviate the need for fins... but any hull feature tend to add quickly a lot of drag, a fin is still the most efficient way to provide lateral resistance for the less drag, and mandatory in my opinion on hybrid (SUP + foil) boards.

emmafoils
253 posts
11 Dec 2020 4:40PM
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colas said..


bolgo said..
2 small stabilisers help too??




Yes, a lot:

- because it is a surf shape, so it has more row effect than a pure foil SUP board with their bevels and parallel rails. Saves a lot of energy for paddling out. Even Dave Kalama uses also a fin on his pure SUP foil shape (but in the front as he has no room in the tail).

- it allows me to put all my focus and strength into the forward pull on takeoffs. This extra bit of push makes me take waves that others miss, especially the people that got short dedicated SUP foil boards because every cool kid have them, but don't have yet the paddling technique to master a very short SUP... It helps me even though I have 10 years of paddling experience in 6'x" SUPs...

- and the most important effect: it keeps the board go straight when the (surf) tail touches the water. Otherwise I found out that it wlll skip on the water like a stone and go sideways, inducing yaw, and even a small amount of yaw kills a foil speed, much more than the water friction itself. In a way it acts like a nubster to maintain drive on a too-loose quad surfboard.

A good hull design alleviate the need for fins... but any hull feature tend to add quickly a lot of drag, a fin is still the most efficient way to provide lateral resistance for the less drag, and mandatory in my opinion on hybrid (SUP + foil) boards.



This is really interesting. I wonder why you don't see them on more of the shorter foil SUPs? Kalama uses a single one in the front and Ride Engine seems to have borrowed that idea but I don't see them on other production boards. It seems a front fin would counter the yawing moment better.

What do you think about a board like the Naish Hover SUP that is set up for quad fins? Leave all 4 fins on when using foil or just the outer 2?

colas
4071 posts
11 Dec 2020 6:49PM
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emmafoils said..
I wonder why you don't see them on more of the shorter foil SUPs? Kalama uses a single one in the front and Ride Engine seems to have borrowed that idea but I don't see them on other production boards.


Because a lot of people in surfing (a bit less in foiling) are awfully conservative and are afraid of trying things they do not see pros using.

In this case however, it is because if you have a "whistle tail" (bevel on the tail), you have no room to put a fin, and also sub-6' boards have the foil mast too close to the tail for a fin to have significant leverage anyways. Plus most dedicated SUP foil boards seem to have enough yaw-countering properties nowadays?

Also, if you have enough dihedral in your stabilizer (or up/downturned tips), it can acts as small rudders.
I added a small fin on a flat stabilizer, and it worked well, except that the force on it was building like the square of the speed, so it was stiffening too much the foil at speed. Which is not an issue for fins as they are out of the water at speed.

I didnt try a fin in front, I would be wary of veering away the nose hard on touchdowns, but I didnt try it yet.

On a quad setup I would just use the 2 rear ones for maximum leverage. I have seen pics of Kahei kite foiling with the quads still on, he told me that he was just being lazy and did not bother to remove them for a foil session :-)

Beasho
192 posts
31 Dec 2020 2:38AM
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Here is a video I made using a 6' 6" Easy Foiler. No tail fins, no leading fin. 40 strokes on one side.
Key:
1) Get your hand far over the rail and make sure paddle is vertical (suggested above)
2) Add weight to the rail to effectively turn the board as you are paddling

This is definitely more manageable in calm water vs. choppy. I can typically get 6 to 10 strokes in on one side without a problem on boards down to 6' (all 28" wide) in almost all conditions.
PS: I am sour on adding more accoutrements when technique can overcome more complicated gear, fins, boxes, weight . . .

surfcowboy
90 posts
31 Dec 2020 2:25PM
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After a while this won't be a problem. That's really why the fins don't take off. By the time you get around to installing the fin, you figure this out and don't need it.

By the time we finish replying all this you will post that you got it.

I still have to curve around a bit to set myself in the right place, no more turn and go, but that seems pretty common and now that's a small curve and not a giant arc like at the start.

colas
4071 posts
31 Dec 2020 2:57PM
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Beasho said..
PS: I am sour on adding more accoutrements when technique can overcome more complicated gear, fins, boxes, weight . . .






Yes, you can paddle without row effect on a very short finless board, BUT:

- by how much does it reduce your paddling efficiency? how much energy must you divert to counter the row effect that could have been used for forward propulsion? Take also into account that you may have to pull your punches, and not paddle or use your body weight as hard as you could do.

- How much of your attention will it require with chop, water movements? how much mental focus will be "stolen" from thinking only to catch the wave properly?

It bears down to the management of your limited mental and physical resources: Is it worth it to do "by hand" a job that a fin could provide for you?

I CAN go finless, but I found the (small) energy then spent was not worth it, the "return on investment" was better when used to take off than to control the yaw, and let a fin do this job for me.

stevet73
NSW, 186 posts
7 hours ago , 16 Jan 2021 6:19AM
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As colas suggested to me 2 years ago, I put two little side fins on my refitted hypernut to help stay a bit straighter....I angle grinded two old plastic FCS fins down. I think it definitely helped. I don't use them now but now I've had enough practice.

Crikey....the hypernut feels like a lifetime ago. Persevere and you'll get it....and you won't regret it



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"How do I paddle straight?" started by Mahanumah