Forums > Stand Up Paddle Foiling

Wing Vs Wind(windsurf) foiling

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Created by northy1 1 month ago, 27 Jun 2020
northy1
247 posts
27 Jun 2020 3:36AM
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Im at a cross roads (having windsurfed for 30 yrs + Surf SUP and Windfoiled for last 12 mths) - to either invest in some new Windfoiling gear (eg SS Wizard) or move over to Wings.

Obviously this forum is about Wings so i guessed biased...but anyone else here moved over or even do both able to give me a fair comparison? All the manufacturers are going mental for the Wing and its the latest trend...and of course there is Fear Of Missing Out....but im struggling to get independent Joe Bloggs views on how they compare. Has anyone tried Winging and thinks it sucks?Cheers

Fitzsup
NSW, 149 posts
27 Jun 2020 6:57AM
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northy1 said..
Im at a cross roads (having windsurfed for 30 yrs + Surf SUP and Windfoiled for last 12 mths) - to either invest in some new Windfoiling gear (eg SS Wizard) or move over to Wings.

Obviously this forum is about Wings so i guessed biased...but anyone else here moved over or even do both able to give me a fair comparison? All the manufacturers are going mental for the Wing and its the latest trend...and of course there is Fear Of Missing Out....but im struggling to get independent Joe Bloggs views on how they compare. Has anyone tried Winging and thinks it sucks?Cheers


NO

DavidJohn
VIC, 16348 posts
27 Jun 2020 6:57AM
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Like you I've windsurfed a long time and I got into windsurfing with a foil for a while.. I now wing foil and I much prefer it.. Just do it..

Yuppy
VIC, 614 posts
27 Jun 2020 8:02AM
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I tried windfoiling but didn't like it. I am a windsurfer at heart. Don't like SUP. I'd rather surf
when I tried wing foiling I fell in love. Can't stop thinking about it. My wife is Jealous.
The biggest advantage of wing foiling is that you can truely surf the rolling swell in the bay or at surf breaks. Can't do that on a kite or windsurfer. It is very smooth. Feels great. Another advantage is a huge wind range
On the other hand a wind foil is faster, adrenaline pumping and with the right gear can foil in lower winds. You need lots of sails because the wind range is small. Three sails will get you the same wind range as one wing.
I think the correct answer is to buy a bigger van and do both

rmitch
12 posts
27 Jun 2020 6:16AM
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Same, windsurfed 30+ years, loving every minute of it.....until...went winging, and got the bug big time! This story is a slight twist on wing vs wind foiling, it's wing vs windsurfing. I've now winged ever since last August and just a few weeks ago got blown off the water while winging (35+kn), only had my 5.3 wing. Well that's perfect to break out the windsurf gear I think to myself! OMG what a weird foreign feeling. Stuck to the surface, pounding/slappy, noisy. Why won't this thing pop and fly! Windsurfing is certainly faster but the surfing, cruisy, flow of winging is unreal !! The ability to fly around in all directions in all conditions, and easily de-power and just surf swell is unmatched. Something about the freedom, no lines, no harness, no attached sail. Not sure if I'll ever windsurf again

DWF
224 posts
27 Jun 2020 6:29AM
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I windsurf foiled for 2 years. Got into wing foiling at the beginning.

Decided to sell my windsurf foiling kit this spring.

The foiling sensations are better on a wing. Better surfing too.

Wings are getting better too. Closer to sails now in comfort.

baldy123
WA, 72 posts
27 Jun 2020 7:20AM
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I've had 30 wingfoil sessions to 1 windfoil session in the past 3 months. That might say something. However, all types of foiling are awesome in my opinion.

I'm currently hooked on using the wing at the moment. Riding waves and swell and having the freedom to carve in any direction is its main advantage. The wind range of a wing is another bonus, they easily handle 12-25knots without feeling overpowered. The windfoil has some speed advantages and ability to really hold a full power carve. The slingshot wizard boards are awesome and plenty of crew ripping on them over here.

For me:
wing surf - downwind point A to point B, riding waves over 3ft+, 20knots+, short sessions needing fast setup
windfoil - flat water, 10-20knots, upwind and downwind sessions from same launch spot.

Relapse
VIC, 366 posts
27 Jun 2020 1:45PM
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If you are more of a freeride blasting type windsurfing then stick to windfoil, if you find going in a straight line boring like me and are more into waves and transitions then it's hard to beat a wing. Tried windfoiling but found it a bit dull, first time up with a wing and was hooked, first time you let go the wing and ride a wave you'll never look back

Rosscoe
VIC, 479 posts
27 Jun 2020 2:09PM
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I also windsurfed for many years and really enjoyed it. However, surfing has always remained the activity that gives me the most enjoyment and connection with the elements and that's not going to change. Windsurfing provided an option to get on the water when it was too windy and/or not at a surf beach.

SUP surfing provides increased opportunities to get that buzz in waves from knee-high to well overhead and on mellow to heavy breaks. Downwind SUP is also excellent fun, but you do need big boards to get the most out of it.

Foiling takes surfing to (literally) a completely new dimension, and you start looking at waves you wouldn't have even considered before. I have just started winging, but the attraction of it is twofold:
- already having the foil gear, I only need the wing (packed into a small daypack) to open up whole new range of foiling opportunities
- it's how I'm going to more easily get into downwind foiling. Then the whole ocean/bay is your playground.

The main reason I lost interest in windsurfing is the amount of gear you have to lug down to the beach. No longer do I have to load 1 or 2 boards, 2 masts, 5 sails etc etc. just for one session. I just throw the foil, board and wing inside the car and I'm ok - even after only 7 sessions on the wingding - from 15 to 25 knots.

Sure, people are starting to carry around different sized wings, but they are easily packable and 2 appropriately sized wings will probably cover a range of 10 - 30 knots.

Unlike the windsurfers and windfoilers you don't need a fully loaded tradies' van to carry just your basic gear. I also agree with the comment above about how quiet and smooth it is on foil. I always know when a windsurfer is coming up behind me, from the slap-slap-slap racket they make through the water.

(Sorry if this is a bit long-winded, but I have some inner ear issues that are keeping me out of the water for a number of weeks and I have nothing better to do with my time atm. )

Windbot
185 posts
27 Jun 2020 2:09PM
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I am a windfoiler, originally a windsurfer, kiteboarder and kitefoiler in that order. I live in a place that has seriously light wind. Occasionally I will get out on a 20knot day and my absolute favorite thing is to downwind windfoil. For the conditions it easily beats windsurfing, being yanked downwind kitefoiling or kitesurfing, but sometimes I wish I could just toss the sail away. I expect wingfoiling will let me do this. I also expect to have my first wingfoil session this weekend on my Wizard 125L windfoil board and expect to get some footage or at least have a report in the coming days. My hope is to keep my big windfoil sail for light wind days as it will smoke a wingfoil with its size and efficiency, then wingsurf in the higher wind and swell. I expect as time passes lightwind wingfoil setups will get better and become worth considering.

bluewave
31 posts
27 Jun 2020 2:55PM
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After 35 years of windsurfing mostly on Maui, I pretty much gave it up to devote all my time to wing foiling... nothing beats the freedom and versatility of the wing and the foil....no regrets

Mikedubs
44 posts
27 Jun 2020 3:13PM
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Never windfoiled. But windsurfer for 20yrs then kiter for 20 yrs. Now only Wing. It's awesome and a huge buzz and I've only just started, free from tons of gear and free from kite lines, sold all my kite gear and I used to be obsessive surfboard kiter.??mike

Relapse
VIC, 366 posts
27 Jun 2020 6:29PM
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Still hard to beat that DTL acceleration and whacking the lip on wave sailing gear. Getting in and out in dumpy shore break with wave gear is a lot easier than a wing too. Had 3 great days in the waves last week that would have been a real challenge on a wing

azymuth
WA, 1103 posts
27 Jun 2020 4:48PM
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baldy123 said..
I've had 30 wingfoil sessions to 1 windfoil session in the past 3 months. That might say something. However, all types of foiling are awesome in my opinion.
I'm currently hooked on using the wing at the moment. Riding waves and swell and having the freedom to carve in any direction is its main advantage. The wind range of a wing is another bonus, they easily handle 12-25knots without feeling overpowered. The windfoil has some speed advantages and ability to really hold a full power carve. The slingshot wizard boards are awesome and plenty of crew ripping on them over here.
For me:
wing surf - downwind point A to point B, riding waves over 3ft+, 20knots+, short sessions needing fast setup
windfoil - flat water, 10-20knots, upwind and downwind sessions from same launch spot.




Nice one Pete
We both started foiling coming up for 3 years ago - it's been great watching you pioneer the windwing locally, leading the charge and ripping in all conditions.

In support of windfoiling;
Downwind - windfoilers can depower by using a small sail and let it flutter to ride the windswells (like a windwing in park).
But it's more fun to use a bigger sail, speed up and power carve S-turns across the faces and down the swells.

We use 800 sq cm, 65 wide foil wings over 15 knots of wind, the acceleration and carving ability of small wings is addictive.
1500 sq cm, 76 wide wing is as big as we need to go - gets us going in 10 knots.
Windfoiling is most fun in 25-35 knots when the windswells are insane fun.

Relapse says that windfoils just go in a straight line - perhaps at first but carving is where it's at. It does take practice.
Yesterday's NW session - superfun long downwind carves on stbd and wave rides on port;

northy1
247 posts
27 Jun 2020 6:53PM
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Thanks for all the insights

Just also spoke to a mate who reckons the wing thing is not necessarily the light wind option people are raving about esp if you are 90kg+ older and not as athletic or as good as the guys you see pumping the board in dockside starts? That for most avg joe it will be solid 15 to 20kts to get it going...like equivalent to windsurfing sail choice?

hilly
WA, 5506 posts
27 Jun 2020 7:06PM
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If you have the right kit light wind is the best.

northy1
247 posts
27 Jun 2020 7:17PM
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Ps should have said I'm still going to windurf when it's down the line wave riding! My intention is really for sub 20 kts...basically as an alternative to windsurf foiling

DWF
224 posts
27 Jun 2020 8:28PM
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northy1 said..
Thanks for all the insights

Just also spoke to a mate who reckons the wing thing is not necessarily the light wind option people are raving about esp if you are 90kg+ older and not as athletic or as good as the guys you see pumping the board in dockside starts? That for most avg joe it will be solid 15 to 20kts to get it going...like equivalent to windsurfing sail choice?


Hum, I'm 66 years old, winging in 10 knots all the time with a 6m. Yes the windsurf foilers rigging 8 and 9m beat me in Uber light wind. But I'm free as a bird foiling with a feather in my hands on a little 5'1 x 26 wing board. This increase the joy of riding a foil tremendously

northy1
247 posts
27 Jun 2020 8:51PM
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DWF said..

northy1 said..
Thanks for all the insights

Just also spoke to a mate who reckons the wing thing is not necessarily the light wind option people are raving about esp if you are 90kg+ older and not as athletic or as good as the guys you see pumping the board in dockside starts? That for most avg joe it will be solid 15 to 20kts to get it going...like equivalent to windsurfing sail choice?



Hum, I'm 66 years old, winging in 10 knots all the time with a 6m. Yes the windsurf foilers rigging 8 and 9m beat me in Uber light wind. But I'm free as a bird foiling with a feather in my hands on a little 5'1 x 26 wing board. This increase the joy of riding a foil tremendously


Thanks for that!

Mikedubs
44 posts
27 Jun 2020 11:47PM
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I'm only on session 10, but I went to the beach was only 12 knots at best, lulls a lot lower. I was on big foil and ensis 6m and I was hauling ass....! Pumped into foil in gusts and flew through lulls. I looked upwind once whilst I was absolutely flying and thought there is no wind! I'm sure as I get better I will be flying in less.
mike

DWF
224 posts
28 Jun 2020 12:32AM
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overcast.fm/+LM-gpq_4A

Gunnar makes good points in this new podcast.

Gorgo
VIC, 4417 posts
28 Jun 2020 5:24PM
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Seems to me that the wind foiling disciplines (sail, kite, wing) are defined by the flexibility of the power source and the relationship with the board and rider.

A windsurf sail is pretty much locked into place on the board and you have to work around the sail to do anything.

A kite frees up the deck and gives you a heap more power to work with. You still need a big space to launch and land and you still need to keep tension on the lines to keep the kite in the air.

A wing completely severs the connection between the wing and the board. You can pretty much do what you want.

This video is about the funnest, free-est silliest load of fun I've seen for a while.

For me, in kitefoiling the single most funnest move is the reducing radius carve. You build more and more speed as the radius decreases until you either bear off and repeat, or throw in a tack or 360. The guy on the green Ozone wing is nailing the reducing radius carve. Those guys are world class kite foil racers, but it all looks attemptable to me.

northy1
247 posts
28 Jun 2020 6:09PM
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yeah i saw that video - looks great but i suspect those guys are amazing foilers (young athletic, skilled) at the top of their game...need to see more from 90kg duffers in late 40s who arent ex pro windsurf or kitesurfers haha!

DavidJohn
VIC, 16348 posts
28 Jun 2020 10:08PM
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northy1 said..
yeah i saw that video - looks great but i suspect those guys are amazing foilers (young athletic, skilled) at the top of their game...need to see more from 90kg duffers in late 40s who arent ex pro windsurf or kitesurfers haha!


A vid like these old farts in their 50's and 60's..

We are ex windsurfers and we have only been at it for about 6 months.. I'm 63.. 100kgs.. and having heaps of fun.. Watching vids like the above vid inspires us and we look forward to mastering some of those moves.

Gorgo
VIC, 4417 posts
28 Jun 2020 11:19PM
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northy1 said..
yeah i saw that video - looks great but i suspect those guys are amazing foilers (young athletic, skilled) at the top of their game...need to see more from 90kg duffers in late 40s who arent ex pro windsurf or kitesurfers haha!


I think all that looks very attainable. I don't see anything in the video I wouldn't have a go at. I'm 63.

MidAtlanticFoil
85 posts
29 Jun 2020 7:34PM
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Rosscoe said..
I also windsurfed for many years and really enjoyed it. However, surfing has always remained the activity that gives me the most enjoyment and connection with the elements and that's not going to change. Windsurfing provided an option to get on the water when it was too windy and/or not at a surf beach.

SUP surfing provides increased opportunities to get that buzz in waves from knee-high to well overhead and on mellow to heavy breaks. Downwind SUP is also excellent fun, but you do need big boards to get the most out of it.

Foiling takes surfing to (literally) a completely new dimension, and you start looking at waves you wouldn't have even considered before. I have just started winging, but the attraction of it is twofold:
- already having the foil gear, I only need the wing (packed into a small daypack) to open up whole new range of foiling opportunities
- it's how I'm going to more easily get into downwind foiling. Then the whole ocean/bay is your playground.

The main reason I lost interest in windsurfing is the amount of gear you have to lug down to the beach. No longer do I have to load 1 or 2 boards, 2 masts, 5 sails etc etc. just for one session. I just throw the foil, board and wing inside the car and I'm ok - even after only 7 sessions on the wingding - from 15 to 25 knots.

Sure, people are starting to carry around different sized wings, but they are easily packable and 2 appropriately sized wings will probably cover a range of 10 - 30 knots.

Unlike the windsurfers and windfoilers you don't need a fully loaded tradies' van to carry just your basic gear. I also agree with the comment above about how quiet and smooth it is on foil. I always know when a windsurfer is coming up behind me, from the slap-slap-slap racket they make through the water.

(Sorry if this is a bit long-winded, but I have some inner ear issues that are keeping me out of the water for a number of weeks and I have nothing better to do with my time atm. )


I can fit two foil boards, 4 foil wings, two wings, and two car seats into my Mini Cooper countryman. A lot of gear, but doesn't take up much space!

Rosscoe
VIC, 479 posts
1 Jul 2020 8:06AM
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Maybe this shows a difference between windsurfing and winging. I'm still out of the water, so took some pics at Green Point yesterday.

And....yes....it was windy, but cold. Plenty of rubber required.

















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"Wing Vs Wind(windsurf) foiling" started by northy1