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Volume for pulled-in shape in quiver

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Created by Kisutch 2 months ago, 28 Sep 2021
Kisutch
149 posts
28 Sep 2021 12:10AM
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Hey all,

For those of you who have a pulled in shape in your quiver (not a gun but like a supertech/BlurrV2/Acid/Pro/etc) how did you consider the volume. Did you go larger to compensate for less stable shape and more moving water in larger surf? Or smaller for more performance in more critical waves, and because you already have a more stable design to fall back on... or same volume... or maybe you go smaller because you've yet to hit rock bottom and are still dropping volume over time.

I'm not positive I'm gonna pick one up (already traded for one last spring that was too big and sold it)... but I do spend an irrationally amount of time scheming on next board purchase, so I was curious how folks approached volume when adding this type of board. Cheers

slsurf
91 posts
28 Sep 2021 2:30AM
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If I was to get a pro style I would keep volume at 1.2 or so to get the potential out of the shape and to keep it from having the "log rolling" effect of a small corky board with an unstable outline. Having said that all the brands upsize their pro shape dimension range to something that can handle a little more volume without making the rails too thick if you are the right size.

Kisutch
149 posts
28 Sep 2021 8:06AM
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slsurf said..
If I was to get a pro style I would keep volume at 1.2 or so to get the potential out of the shape and to keep it from having the "log rolling" effect of a small corky board with an unstable outline. Having said that all the brands upsize their pro shape dimension range to something that can handle a little more volume without making the rails too thick if you are the right size.


Thanks, yeah part of me really wants to get a 100L which would be 1.2, maybe just bring both boards every session. A prone surfer who I always see out gets punished learning on a shortboard for like 1h and then swaps to longboard.

slsurf
91 posts
28 Sep 2021 8:34AM
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Even the performance stock boards at 100L are 28 wide and up, and usually 8ft, this is still a very big board in terms of wave catching and glide compared to a surfer on a shortboard and you have a paddle. I'm guessing if you are like most advancing SUP you can make it work, but will be down to preference and your spot whether it is worth the added effort and falls. Personally I really don't like the nose pulled all the way in for stability catching waves especially in side ribs or chop. Nothing worse than being knocked over right at the point of dropping in.

surfinJ
599 posts
28 Sep 2021 2:49PM
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If you only have one board, it can be an `allarounder' that take on all conditions. But of course it will be a compromise compared to a quiver of specialized ones.
At 6' 85kg I have found that 120l is my minimum. Lucky enough to have built up a quiver but unlike some peoples that have a series of similar boards with small differences, mine is spread out with large differences between.

So my most high performance board is a 8-3x30 119l shortboard shape. Then as follows, 129l larger 9-2x31 shortboard, 9-6x30 138l mini-gun, 10-4x28 140l gun, 10-6x31 149l longboard. I am only at my minimum with one board. I can go big on this one too but it has to be smooth. As the water conditions become more challenging I have a choice of larger boards so I can still be successful in having a fun surf.

colas
4429 posts
28 Sep 2021 3:16PM
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Like slsurf, I find that a guild factor of 1.2 is the sweet spot for me.

More and I get the "rolling log effect".

Less and the board becomes noticeably slower to paddle (the board is sunk and displaces a lot of water), plus there is no real "resting" position and I must always actively keep the balance, so I get tired very fast.

But you must also factor in the width:
- a wider board can avoid the "log effect" and allow bigger volumes. E.g. 130L would be too much volume for a 29" board for me, but would be OK for a 31" one.
- wider boards add stability and compensate for the low volume. My 105L 7'3" Gong Fatal at 29"3/4 is as stabler for me as my 120L Gong Alley 8'1" also at 29"3/4, but with a wider plan shape, especially at the nose (2" and 1" more at the one foot offs). But the Alley paddles much faster, so I use it for more than shoulder high conditions, when waves can peak all over the place.

But to answer your original question, I have my "pointy shape" (the Alley) in two sizes: 105L and 120L for my 97kg. 80% of the time I use the 120L, the 105L is for very clean conditions and no crowds, when I know I would have a very high wave count, and would be OK to have a session of at most 1h30 before being too tired. But this is because they are very light (5.8kg with pad for the 120L, 5.2 for the 105L), so the "high volume" 120L is not so cumbersome on the wave because it is so light: you get the volume "for free", basically.

PS: You can see my quiver at www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Stand-Up-Paddle/SUP/Quobba-Fins-?page=8#2706724

Kisutch
149 posts
29 Sep 2021 6:02AM
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Thanks guys for the really helpful information! The 8x28 Blurr V2 is what was tempting me. On one hand I can picture cranking turns on a nice winter wave, but can also picture trying to get back out before next set comes in and having nose go under, then the awkward 15s dance I do trying to right the ship before getting eventually getting chucked off. I think I'm game for it though:)

colas
4429 posts
29 Sep 2021 1:46PM
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Kisutch said..
having nose go under,


See my trick "Another trick for pointed noses is to keep the tip of the nose well above the water" at www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Stand-Up-Paddle/Review/An-approximate-way-to-know-the-stability-of-a-sup-board-without-testing-it#2706930

On pointed nose boards, you do not want the nose to ever go under, as then the balance dynamics change radically, and it is hard to manage it. Always Leave a big security margin.

Kisutch
149 posts
30 Sep 2021 10:11AM
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Thanks Colas this is great. Your prior advice on fencing stance has been really useful. cheers

Daveb27
28 posts
2 Oct 2021 12:13AM
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I picked up a 2nd hand smik spitfire V1 8'3" 111 ltr, 29.5" wide, IMO it's a forgiving performance shape. My 8' hipster is fuller in the nose, a different type of board I use for less windy, smaller days as the spitfire is a faster paddler for getting into the wave. Build quality and weight of both smiks are great and they both surf really well. I also have 8.5' 112ltr steller design OZX which I use on bigger windy days as 31" wide and has good stability, it has very sharp rails and is essentially built & shaped like a custom board. I think rail to rail transition is perhaps not as quick on this as on the spitfire due to the width, a bit more footwork required, but on bigger choppy waves that's not quite so important, whereas speed and stability are.

I'm 56 yo, 84 kg 5'11" flotation ratio about 1.32

Kisutch
149 posts
3 Oct 2021 3:00AM
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The Smik Hipster and Spitfire look awesome, wish we could get them in US. The Gongs too. Thanks for sharing info.

Jeroensurf
511 posts
3 Oct 2021 5:41AM
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I have 2 performance alike boards.I,m 97kg and 188cm tall and only use these boards on holidays because the waves in the netherlands are usually crap.
but when i,m in France, UK, Ireland etc and it is clean my carbon Starboard Pro8.5x29x112l from 2015. Its awesome. That awesomes stops the minute its starts to blow or the water gets a bit confused because then its simply too wobbly.
(Happily expecting a new born Smik Spitfire8.6x126l for that tiny extra bit stability as replacement).

For those hmmmm the forecast looked better days I own a custom: 8.2ft x 30 x110l but with the more fishy wider nose (copied from the starboard Airborne) and a wider tail, taken from the Hypernut with a pro rocker and only 3.7thick with thinned rails.
When paddling only the nose is out, but due the wider nose ad tail its plenty stable in chop/wind/chaos and short period waves that are allover the place ....while still ripping. It givers a bit up to the Pro, but not that much so this holiday (we are now in France) I even left it at home because of a windy forecast.When you are a bit afraid to lose too much stability, a but wider tail or nose adds soo much. Have a look at the Infinity B-line or the Hipster twin that is mentioned as well. They don,t lose out that much performance and have a way bigger useability.




Kisutch
149 posts
3 Oct 2021 11:11PM
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Thanks -this is helpful and sounds like you have a sweet combination of boards. Do you think if you surfed the holiday conditions every week then your 112L Starboard Pro would feel OK in a little chop? That's like 1.15 L/kg for you and I'd go 1.2 with the V2 I was considering. I pick my days and on the break I'd surf this there is some wind blockage and less moving water, but it's rarely truly glassy (according to my surf friend from S. California).

The B-line looks awesome but I think it's a fairly similar outline to my current board (JL Worldwide), but with thinner rails. I would love to try one, but seems like it might replace my current board rather than complement it. cheers

Jeroensurf
511 posts
4 Oct 2021 4:27AM
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You can get used to everything so yes, but for me for only a couple of days a year I take the easy road. Slightly less tight turning but les tiring and more fun.
Now if I would go to Bali for a month I would grab the pro for sure.
What makes the 2015 pro for me still a very good board is that it has some volume in the nose, making it easier to lean on and balance.
I have tried newer boards and imo they are not really better, just different.

Kisutch
149 posts
4 Oct 2021 9:55AM
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The new Starboard Pro 7'7" is a super intriguing option for an aspirational next board, but I don't think I'd be able to get one this winter and $3k might get me divorced:)

Kisutch
149 posts
14 Oct 2021 4:25AM
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I ordered the 100L V2, friend and I both looking at boards (8x28 New Deal for him), Dave B talked to us both on phone, super nice and helpful. IMO I'd be better off with 109 to surf in near future, but I'm excited to push myself and based on how easy my 110L JLWW is when glassy, I think I could potentially surf 100L V2 OK right now in clean conditions . hopefully work up from there. Wish me luck!

Kami
1556 posts
25 Oct 2021 3:11PM
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Kisutch said..
I ordered the 100L V2, friend and I both looking at boards (8x28 New Deal for him), Dave B talked to us both on phone, super nice and helpful. IMO I'd be better off with 109 to surf in near future, but I'm excited to push myself and based on how easy my 110L JLWW is when glassy, I think I could potentially surf 100L V2 OK right now in clean conditions . hopefully work up from there. Wish me luck!


I'm wishing you a good luck anyhow it seems a radical choice you made. Keep reporting your sessions!

Kisutch
149 posts
25 Oct 2021 10:14PM
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Thanks! I'll report back once I can use it, we have short period 20ft+ swell right now, gonna be a week til I can get in water. Here is side by side with JL WW, maybe some lens distortion




Charlie22
WA, 7 posts
26 Oct 2021 5:34PM
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Let me know if u want to sell the WW. Saw a dude at Otter with the blurrV2. Nice ride and he handled the conditions well. Was big, bumpy and a lot of movement.

Kisutch
149 posts
26 Oct 2021 11:31PM
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Charlie22 said..
Let me know if u want to sell the WW. Saw a dude at Otter with the blurrV2. Nice ride and he handled the conditions well. Was big, bumpy and a lot of movement.


Sure thing - I plan to hang onto the WW for mellower or bumpy days cause I love it, but if the V2 becomes my all-arounder I'll DM you. Glad to hear someone was rocking the V2 in local bumpy stuff! I was surprised that the nose outline was pretty much the same as the WW, that gives me hope that it won't be too tricky to get used to. Hoping the sunken step rails might add some stability too, I lost 5 lb. this fall (not sure why) and I think it actually made the WW feel a little tippier in rough stuff, yet more solid in glass. cheers

anchorpoint
165 posts
27 Oct 2021 12:53AM
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Kisutch said..

Charlie22 said..
Let me know if u want to sell the WW. Saw a dude at Otter with the blurrV2. Nice ride and he handled the conditions well. Was big, bumpy and a lot of movement.



Sure thing - I plan to hang onto the WW for mellower or bumpy days cause I love it, but if the V2 becomes my all-arounder I'll DM you. Glad to hear someone was rocking the V2 in local bumpy stuff! I was surprised that the nose outline was pretty much the same as the WW, that gives me hope that it won't be too tricky to get used to. Hoping the sunken step rails might add some stability too, I lost 5 lb. this fall (not sure why) and I think it actually made the WW feel a little tippier in rough stuff, yet more solid in glass. cheers


Kisutch, you will have a blast on the V2! its a clinical board! One of the best construction i have seen...( and i have sunova, starboard and smik boards to compare to.. ) , you are right for the step deck it somehow add a lot of inbuild stability...i love my v2 8'5 ! would love to buy a smaller one but bought the 8.5 for the wife but she didnt like it ( pointy nose and lack of interest for surfing if you ask me ! ) so she is back on the smik 10' and i use her board ... have fun!

Kisutch
149 posts
27 Oct 2021 11:17PM
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anchorpoint said..

Kisutch said..


Charlie22 said..
Let me know if u want to sell the WW. Saw a dude at Otter with the blurrV2. Nice ride and he handled the conditions well. Was big, bumpy and a lot of movement.




Sure thing - I plan to hang onto the WW for mellower or bumpy days cause I love it, but if the V2 becomes my all-arounder I'll DM you. Glad to hear someone was rocking the V2 in local bumpy stuff! I was surprised that the nose outline was pretty much the same as the WW, that gives me hope that it won't be too tricky to get used to. Hoping the sunken step rails might add some stability too, I lost 5 lb. this fall (not sure why) and I think it actually made the WW feel a little tippier in rough stuff, yet more solid in glass. cheers



Kisutch, you will have a blast on the V2! its a clinical board! One of the best construction i have seen...( and i have sunova, starboard and smik boards to compare to.. ) , you are right for the step deck it somehow add a lot of inbuild stability...i love my v2 8'5 ! would love to buy a smaller one but bought the 8.5 for the wife but she didnt like it ( pointy nose and lack of interest for surfing if you ask me ! ) so she is back on the smik 10' and i use her board ... have fun!


Thanks! Love it that you scored a V2 via a gift to your wife, I have much to learn from you ! :)

Kisutch
149 posts
30 Oct 2021 7:03AM
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I couldn't wait any longer so I tried my new 8x28 V2 out on a floodplain backwater. Not a great indicator of how board will feel in surf since it was flat calm and freshwater (so board sits lower), but ooooohhhh I like this board so far. In freshwater the deck is covered up to near the nose and rails are down there a little cause of the step deck. I was a little worried I'd get the sinking sensation that I get when I try to paddle my kids' 7-foot Wavestorm SUPs, but of course it's nothing like that at all. On calm flats it actually paddles fine in parallel stance, but it also feels more natural to paddle in staggered stance than it does on my JL Worldwide (I swapped between boards twice to compare). The board felt really stable but I could definitely feel that it was smaller and more responsive. I didn't end up needing the wetsuit. Friend who rides a 118L board tried it and felt OK too. All of this may change radically once i get in the waves, but I'm glad I did this little test so that I can feel more confident taking it in the waves in a couple days. Lol last time I dropped 33L and went out in gnarly conditions and I'm still a little scarred from it:) I'll report back! So excited to try my first turns on this.





Kisutch
149 posts
1 Nov 2021 3:02AM
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Board exceeds expectations, had an epic session, this thing turns so well! Actually great for learning cause you can so clearly feel how footwork and shifting weight affects carving turns, had a wave where I bogged tail on first bottom turn, pivoted hard but lost speed, then tried weighting front foot more on next turn, boom, slingshot to the top. A little Wobblier to paddle so my wave positioning not as good, but when I got set waves right at peak and stayed in pocket this thing just lit up. Surprisingly fun on the smaller (chest high) and mushier waves too

slsurf
91 posts
1 Nov 2021 8:14AM
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Your stoked, sounds perfect. Nice thing about sup is how much range you can get out of most boards. I was tempted to get the 7'8 blur since its perfect volume for me but it was too similar to what I use my current small board for and I was also worried I would lose too much mobility since the board is significantly narrower in width and tail. I feel like at the smaller sizes they start targeting not just a smaller rider but a more expert one as well.

Kisutch
149 posts
1 Nov 2021 11:43PM
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slsurf said..
Your stoked, sounds perfect. Nice thing about sup is how much range you can get out of most boards. I was tempted to get the 7'8 blur since its perfect volume for me but it was too similar to what I use my current small board for and I was also worried I would lose too much mobility since the board is significantly narrower in width and tail. I feel like at the smaller sizes they start targeting not just a smaller rider but a more expert one as well.


Thanks for suggesting earlier in thread that I go small with this board. Yeah my friend in same spot with volume cause he's 6' and I think 70kg, but for him to be on a ~1.2 L/kg board it'd be 25" wide or something. What is your current small board?

Can't get over how fun and responsive this board is. Forgot to mention: one downside of stepped rail was that it makes a sharp edge that presses into your forearm when carrying board. Dunno if other folks experience this or if I'm just a total wimp:)

slsurf
91 posts
2 Nov 2021 5:06AM
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Thats weird never had that problem with my step rail, yours must be pretty light to carry, it looks like a surfboard under your arm nice! My small board is custom 7'6 26.25 but with a bit wider 18'' tail. Great board and used it exclusively until recently but the experience didn't leave me much desire to go narrower which pretty much eliminated the blur for me.

For your friend he could probably have fun with the 90l blurr if he found your board stable right away and his ability is good. Otherwise I would look at a wider custom in the 85l range.

colas
4429 posts
2 Nov 2021 2:10PM
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Kisutch said..
Thanks for suggesting earlier in thread that I go small with this board. Yeah my friend in same spot with volume cause he's 6' and I think 70kg, but for him to be on a ~1.2 L/kg board it'd be 25" wide or something. What is your current small board?


Logically, for a board:
- the volume should be proportional to your weight
- the width and length should be proportional to your height
As for clothes, custom boards are there for a reason :-)

(and of course the width and length should be adapted to the waves power and size: narrower for power, longer for big)



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"Volume for pulled-in shape in quiver" started by Kisutch